Q: what was your first memory of drums?

After three years on the piano, which I hated, I remember walking past a famous drum shop in Old Ford Road called 'Ted Warrens', and in the window was a red glitter Olympic drum kit with a bass, snare and tom-tom and that was it. From the moment I saw it I just fell in love with it. I went home to my Mum and she said no way, as I never practiced the piano. But when I came home from school two days later there was the drum kit in the front room! I was about 11 at the time.

Q: At that age what drummers were you aware of?

Buddy Rich, obviously, Gene Krupa and a lot of early rock and skiffle stuff. People like The Shadows' Tony Meehan. My ear wasn't that tuned up and I was just going for lessons, then I gradually got more discerning.

Q: Who were you studying with at the time?

George Scott, who I called Uncle George, over in Wanstead for about a year. My Dad came to pick me up one day and George said, "That's it I can't teach him any more". Then I went to study with Max Abrams, then an American called Bruce Gayler from Chicago - Kenny Clare recommended me to him. That was when the revelations began of what I wanted to know about Buddy Rich and Joe Morello's stuff.

Q: Were you encouraged to play when you were at school?

No, not at all. I told the careers officer that I wanted to be a drummer and he said, "we've got a very good job going for you at Fords as a sweeper-upper ". They couldn't understand that music was what I really wanted to do.

Q: So you left school and turned pro at 15?

I was doing that before I left school, which was highly illegal. I was taken around pubs in the East End at 14 and I had a regular session at a pub called The Brewery Tap in Barking. Every week there was a talent competition, so I was having to back a lot of dodgy singers! But it was all good experience, doing a lot of weddings and parties. My dad formed the band with an uncle, a cousin and two friends and we became one of the most popular function bands in the East End.

Q: So the transition from education to employment was very similar for both of us. When did you start to move out of the East End?

Three weeks after leaving school I was doing a 20-week summer season at Yarmouth. I did that for four years, and during the winters I was doing the Mecca Ballroom in Norwich and was based up there. I was moving from winter gig to summer gig, growing with experience, and then I moved to the West End. I did a stint at the infamous Stork Club, the Hirondelle, the Latin Quarter, all those sorts of places. It was a fantastic scene. There were lots of great musicians at the time, lots of late-night drinking clubs where we'd all hang out, have a drink and talk music. A lot of guys now don't get to do that.